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Talk:Mediumship

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources
Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine mediumship's name.
Source/Explanation
R.D. Hall called Ida May's power "mediumship" in an interview.

Name

Is Ida really a medium? That implies she has some form of relationship with them, that she communicates with them, or delivers messages to/from the spirits she sees. I'm not sure that's the case with Ida. I'm not an expert on the supernatural, but it just seems like this isn't the best name for the power. I'll ask R.D. Hall when I speak with him. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:41, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

  • The only alternative I can think of is "necromancy", which has a more magical connotation. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 19:45, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Sixth Sense. --DocM 05:26, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
      • Necrovoyance? If you want to go with the whole 'seeing-the-dead' theme. --Ciwey 06:21, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
        • R.D. confirmed that there is no communication between Ida May and the dead people she sees. I'd like to look at other names for the power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:39, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
      • Angel-vision!!! Just kidding. Honestly, the Linda Tavara thing I thought was lame until this GN, but this power just killed it for me. I don't think I'll read the GN's after this. Seeing dead people? Erg.--Bob (talk) 08:49, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Ghostbuster. --DocM 10:41, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Spectral viewing! ooooh... nice and creepy!  :) (Admin 10:46, 9 April 2008 (EDT))
  • ESP would be the most appropriate for this ability in my opinion because we don't know if Ida does or had a relationship with the spirits but we cannot ignore that possibility plus it was absorbed by Linda Tavara and she is "dead" (don't know for sure about that either) so we don't know the limits of the power. --Horrorman 11:24, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Short of calling it "Haley Joel Osment", I think "spectral viewing" fits nicely. I'd like to see some other suggestions, though. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:10, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Until we know more about what really goes on, best may be "Ida May's ability". --Tisco 13:43, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
    • I concur with Ida May's ability because until we have another novel with Linda in it and her using this ability we don't know it's limits. Horrorman 13:46, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
    • I agree with this, too, as I'm personally not confident that we can name the ability right now without being speculative. Since there seems to be support for this name currently I'm going to rename the article to it for now since it will fall in line with our naming policies pending any further discussion about a different name. (Admin 14:22, 9 April 2008 (EDT))
    • I don't think there's anything speculative about "spectral viewing". She sees spirits, which she calls angels. What's speculative about it? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:39, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
      • I didn't mean that "spectral viewing" was speculative. I was expressing doubt whether there'd be quick agreement on a non-speculative name and so while it was discussed I renamed it back to "Ida May's ability" so that at least in the meantime it would follow our convention. If everyone else likes "spectral viewing", I originally mentioned it because I thought it was appropriate and might take us down a promising path. (Admin 18:05, 9 April 2008 (EDT))
        • Gotcha, that makes much more sense. Good move, too. Yeah, I think "spectral viewing" works just fine. I know a few other names have been put on the table, but does anybody have any opposition to "spectral viewing"? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:29, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
    • I like spectral viewing too, or necrovoyance which is pretty much the same thing. --Yamawhata? 16:51, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
      • I like that, on the grounds that it's not really Ida May's ability anymore. It's now Ida May and Linda Tavara's ability. And that's just silly. --DocM 17:06, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
        • I'm for anything that's not "______'s ability", so "spectral viewing" sounds good to me. If we see her actually talk to the spirits, then we could go back to mediumship. --NellaBishop 21:22, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
          • Heavily agreed. I honestly prefer to avoid "____'s ability" at all costs. "Spectral viewing" sounds fine to me, and mediumship is fine if we learn she could communicate with the dead (but I really don't have much of a problem with it, with what we already know). -- Lulu (talk) 21:48, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
            • I fourth (or is it fifth?) in favor of "spectral viewing". It makes sense to me, and it is much narrower than Mediumship.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:16, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
              • I agree, while Mediumship was fairly speculative, Spectral Viewing sounds accurate and non-speculative. Once we get a quote from R.D. about the power, we can use it as a source for the name.--Piemanmoo 19:19, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
                • Just for clarification, has there been an interview that clearly states that Ida actually HAD a power? Granted that we know Linda can take powers, who's to say she isn't just taking their "souls" and is kinda experiencing what they experience? Kinda like how Zach Quinto acts as the person he steals a power from, but for Linda is could also be personality. This is kind of hard to explain. Ida could just be an old woman going insane and having hallucinations. Linda takes her "soul" and sees these hallucinations because the elderly woman is a part of her now, but because she is younger and... sane... she kinda understands what it is. I mean, I think it's a power myself, and it most likely is, but unless it's been said somewhere, this is all speculation, no? We don't know exactly how Linda's powers work yet.--Riddler 01:51, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
                  • Yes. I'm paraphrasing, but R.D. said that Ida's ability to see the dead is an evolved ability. I think he even theorized that it somehow gave her an evolutionary edge. --

RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:29, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

Uh...

User:Shadowulf1 16:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)I thought that the name of this ability was called Mediumism, not mediumship. Not to sound picky, just sayin. Maybe I had a grammatical error in the name, or maybe not. Y'all be the judge. [[1]]

  • See the topic at the bottom. We use naming conventions and "Mediumship" is from an interview with R.D. Hall, and is the nearest to canon we have, so we use it. It's fairly logical when you think about it. -- Friskymuffin - (talk) 17:13, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
    • I'm not sure "mediunism" is a real word. Also, don't trust the wiki at activatingevolution! It's full of spammers and its contents are not added by the Heroes crew.--Referos 17:47, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

question

So... is that a ghost stool that guy is sitting on? A ghost hat the other man is wearing? Ghost bag he is holding? This is the silliest ability yet. ~Action Figure

  • I assumed that the ghost appears exactly as they died. So evidently, the one man died on a stool, and the other had on a hat when he died. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 23:17, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
    • I was of the exact same mind when I read it and saw what they had done. This is more like fantasy than modern day with a twist. From now on, I can rule nothing out, including the existence of fairies, angels or wooden dolls who wish to be real boys. Seriously, this is the absurd to the nth degree. When I read what you wrote about the man dying on a stool, and another dying with his hat on, I cracked up, I really did.--Cheapside 10:49, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Who says they're actually spirits?

Not to get all atheist up in here, but it seems really speculative to me to assume that the things she sees are actually the spirits of dead people. Seems like they could just be visions of dead people, not actual ghosts.--Leshia 03:22, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

  • I'll have to go back and check the recordings of my interview with R.D. Hall to see what he actually says, but I think he called them spirits. He used a movie reference (which escapes me now, but it wasn't Sixth Sense) to describe how he thought of the power. My blunt paraphrasing is that he thought of them as people who died, then their spirits stuck around the only place they knew--in the case of the old people, it was the Retirement Villa. I'll get better info when I can sit down with the interview... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:27, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
    • If you find the wording from the interview, could you list this explanation in the notes? Thanks.--Bob (talk) 08:52, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
      • All in due time, my friend. All in due time. ... R.D. actually sat there with all his research and almost every comment he made is going to go to the Notes or Trivia section of particular pages. Can't wait to get it transcribed! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 09:21, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
        • I really dont like that they are spirits. Seems out of the heroes universe. And maybe I AM getting "all atheist in here, but im fine with that... :) ~Action Figure
          • I can't wait for D.L. and Linderman to return. Actually, if D.L. was not cremated, then they could use the blood and bring him back. They could also bring Linderman back while they're at it. --DocM 20:08, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
          • I don't like it either. So there's an afterlife in the Heroes universe, and it consists of shuffling around the place you died forever? Awesome.--Leshia 23:22, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Was R.D.'s movie reference Beetlejuice? :) (Admin 23:53, 10 April 2008 (EDT))
    • No. It was an older movie than that, I believe, and one that I didn't recognize. I don't have the interview here at work. I'll see if I can grab the reference later this evening when I return home. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:29, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
  • I don't have anything specific against the word "spirits" itself. The way I see it, calling them "spirits" doesn't necessarily mean that they are the souls of dead people; from the novel itself, they seem more like echoes or afterimages than what one would traditionally think of as a sentient "spirit" or "ghost". If we could come up with an even less speculative name, that would be great, but at least we're not using more loaded words like "souls". We could probably be a bit less precise and say that she "sees images of dead people" instead of "sees spirits", but that seems a)slightly speculative in the other direction (implying that they are only images, when that is also not known) and b)really wordy.--Hardvice (talk) 15:03, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Of all places, I think the Ghostbusters cartoon explained how it might work best. We leave "psychic fingerprints" on everything we touch, including clothes, objects, and places. Meaning the "spirits" are just three-dimensional "recordings" of the deceased. We don't know the mechanism as to how it works yet though, so we shouldn't go speculating. It might be further explained in the show and graphic novels, or it could go the way of Water mimicry and appear once, never to be explained or mentioned again. Ace ofspade 12:13, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Perhaps, and I'm kind of guessing here, but Ida May is not looking at the spirits there but the past lives of the people that died there. Because mediumship is more connected with deceased one's memories. So we don't know for sure if their simply memories of the deceased doing the last thing they did when they died. Horrorman 15:32, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
        • It seems that this lady is able to see spirits just for the sake of the ability. One must admit, if one could see spirits everywhere, there would definitely be a use for the ability. If she just saw a ghost every now and then, it would be boring. Just like Isaac Mendez painting the future. If he only did it every other episode, it would be boring. Just seems a bit better this way. It doesn't matter if you get all atheist, that's no problem, the spirits should definitely stay, and that doesn't guarantee an afterlife in the Heroes Universe (though why a person wouldn't want to hope for a better life than this is beyond me- seems like a good deal).

Consensus

I think we're ready for a consensus check on this power. As usual, put a pound sign (#) and three tildes (~~~) to sign your name below the power name(s) you agree with. If the name you think is best isn't below, go ahead and add it. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:15, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

  • Just as a matter of style, most of our power names are in the gerund form. In other words, "viewing" would fit more with our naming practices than "vision". It doesn't really matter too much, and there's no hard and fast rule opposing or in support of one way or another--it's just a stylistic convention I want to bring to everybody's attention. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:29, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Most of our ability names for enhanced versions of normal abilities aren't, though--those which take the form of (amplifying adjective) + (name of human ability). (And before anyone brings it up, "hearing" is a unique case because the gerund form is used both as the name of the ability and of its use. One says "my hearing is good"; one does not say "my feeling/smelling/seeing/tasting/remembering is good").--Hardvice (talk) 15:07, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
      • Ah, I see what you're saying. I guess I was reading "vision" as an event ("I had a vision of a dead person") rather than as an ability ("My vision allows me to see dead people"). They both sound good to me in that case. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:06, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

Spectral viewing

  1. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk)
  2. -Lөvөl
  3. -- NellaBishop 15:51, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
  4. --Yamawhata?
  5. --DocM 18:20, 10 April 2008 (EDT) (It sounds bad ass)
  6. Piemanmoo

Mediumship

  1. -- The Empath
  2. --Sad crescentmoon12 17:29, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

Spectral vision

  1. --Riddler 01:53, 11 April 2008 (EDT) (It sounds more like a power, but this vote only counts if we have some confirmation in an interview or something that it IS a power. See above post.)
  2. --Paronine 02:13, 11 April 2008 (EDT) (I like "Vision" better than "Viewing," personally.)
  3. --agree! --Juba 08:04, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
  4. --MiamiVolts (talk) 14:23, 11 April 2008 (EDT) ("Vision" is indeed more common than viewing... Superman has "X-ray vision" for instance, so "Spectral vision" would be more appropriate by analogy.)
  5. --Hardvice (talk) "Viewing" is the act; "vision" is the ability. Compare "enhanced memory", not "enhanced remembering"
  6. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk)

Back to square one...

Okay, I decided to skip ahead an transcribe the part of my interview with R.D. Hall that talks about Ida May's power (it's almost at the end of the interview). He actually calls the power mediumship, so I'm thinking we should do the same. Also, the movie he referred to was Dawn of the Dead--I guess I was thinking it was something else. Anyway, here are the pertinent excerpts:

Tell me about Ida May Walker's power.

Yes, mediumship.


Is it something she's always had?

I think that's something that's part of her fate. She could actually see all these things and she just thought they were angels. That's because they never interacted. It's kind of like in Romero's Dawn of the Dead: the zombies went back to the places where they always were, like the malls. The places where things felt calm in their lives. I think the ghosts kind of do the same thing. They died in the retirement home, so they're just sort of walking around.

"Mediumship" has my vote. I'll go ahead and change it now since it was named directly by the writer. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:37, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

  • Agreed. Also just in case anyone else picks up on the expression "has my vote", the term itself isn't really up for discussion at this point since it's now closer to canon, only the validity of the writer's definition of it as "mediumship." Since there wasn't any attempt to coax him into using a specific term, there's probably not too much room to debate its validity either. (Admin 20:41, 11 April 2008 (EDT))
    • Right, sorry to use a misleading expression...And definitely no coaxing. It actually of bugs me a bit because I really kind of disagree with the name "mediumship" since it implies communication with the deceased. Oh well, I guess that's one reason we interview writers, right? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:52, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
      • On the bright side I'm really glad R.D. was willing to name the ability. I know a lot of times the writers are hesitant to actually give it a name themselves. (Admin 21:07, 11 April 2008 (EDT))
        • Granted, R.D. may have simply been echoing the name that we had here for Ida May's power--he knows the ins and outs of Heroes as well as any die-hard fan I've ever met (which is more than I can say for most graphic novel creators), and I know he checks the wiki quite frequently. Either way, It's what he called it, so he must have liked the name. And as I'm settling into it, I suppose "mediumship" doesn't have to imply communication with the dead, that's just always the way I've thought of it. Oh well...Yes, thank you, R.D.! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:19, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
          • If so it wouldn't be the first time we've influenced the official name for an ability. :) (Admin 21:22, 11 April 2008 (EDT))
            • To be honest, I think we have a great process here. We discuss the hell out of the issue, and then we generally look for consensus. Discuss more, talk more, blah blah blah. Sometimes it seems so silly--is there really a big difference between "vision" and "viewing"? Does it really matter if we say "enhanced" or "super"? But all that talk fosters good thinking, convincing arguments, and brings up points that might not have been raised otherwise. It's all healthy. However, when it comes to a source beyond what we can come up with on our own, we drop all voting and pretty much stick with what we've been given. (Now I'm just hoping that in the first episode of season three, Molly discovers her long-dead great great aunt, calls Mohinder, and Mo gives the power a new name.) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:29, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
  • So there is canonicly an afterlife in Heroes now? Is this what everyone else is getting from this?--Cheapside 11:00, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
    • I've heard rumours that Linderman haunts the Kirby Plaza building, and D.L. roams the Earth. --DocM 11:04, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
    • The graphic novel is the (near) canon source for the afterlife's existence. The interview confirms it and expounds a bit upon it. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:06, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

fan creation ability families

Does this affect other abilities and in what way. 50000JH

  • What do you mean? Ida and Linda could see spirits. That's all. Green.gif AltesUTC CH

if u go to fan creation and then go into canon ayalis then into family abilities, it has power affecting as a sub heading.50000JH

All the best characters

I think that for the finale ever of heroes they'll have a character with this ability so we can see all of the dead characters we'd like to see again. That'd be great, but probably just wishful thinking. (Although one of the Petrelli kids was meant to have a power were they not?) --mc_hammark 12:13, 14 January 2010 (EST)