Talk:Water mimicry

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine water mimicry's name.
Source/Explanation
Noah says the liquid man can "mimic the density of water" and "can turn his body wholly into liquid" in Team Building Exercise.


Description

  • Unless I missed something the description here seems highly speculative. All I got from the graphic novel was that he was essentially able to transform himself into water, not manipulate any water externally. (Admin 13:00, 30 October 2007 (EDT))
    • I reworded it to be less speculative. Based on what we've seen his ability doesn't involve anything more than being able to essentially transform himself into water. I can see how the scene where he splashes the agents could be a little confusing, but he charged them and splashed through them. (Admin 13:08, 30 October 2007 (EDT))

Name

  • Why is the power called "water density mimicry"? All human beings already are the same density as water (or rather only slightly less dense). Simply "water mimicry" or "self liquefaction" might be better. If it is necessary to include some specific physical quality, then perhaps you want "viscosity" rather than "density".--E rowe 14:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Go into a deep swimming pool, exhale completely, and then tell me if you stay in the same place, sink, or float. :) Despite being mostly water we are still significantly more dense and will sink. That being said it's not my favorite name for an ability, but it's pretty much taken right from the content of the graphic novel. "Water mimicry" seems like an acceptable (and personally my preferred) alternative to me since it remains backed by the novel. (Admin 14:24, 30 October 2007 (EDT))
      • OK, I see, Noah says that his body can mimic the density of water. It's still wrong. But at least it does come from the GN. On the other hand, Noah also says "He can turn his body wholly into liquid," which seems like a more accurate discription of what he does.--E rowe 14:30, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I like "water mimicry" personally and it's essentially what he says in the novel and is backed up by the art as well. If others think "water mimicry" is a better name we could go with that shorter form. (Admin 14:53, 30 October 2007 (EDT))
          • I like the sound and clarity of either 'Aquakinesis' or 'Hydrokinesis' (which fits nicely with the Fire-equivelant of Pyrokinesis). Unfortunately, neither the GN nor the Episode make either of those references. Have we set a strict precidence that we only derive names from the explicit names used in the GNs or Epis, and not a more common or more familiar synonym that might be a better fit? Wouldn't you think that either 'Aquakinesis' or 'Hydrokinesis' is a better description of the ability than 'Water Mimic'? --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/30/2007 15:01 (EST)
            • Yes, according to the naming conventions canonical names or descriptions take precedence and we have some decent canonical terms presented to us in this novel. "Aquakinesis" and "hydrokinesis" aren't accurate descriptions of his ability either which so far just involves transforming (or mimicking) water. (Admin 15:07, 30 October 2007 (EDT))
            • I'm not sure about his ability. 'mimicing' it, to me, means taking water that is existant, and making it do something. He, on the other hand, is creating water out of his body, and yeilding it. I can't see his useage of it in the GN as being any differently than how Meridith Gordon's Pyrokinesis has been shown; or how Sylar's ice ability has been shown. Yes the GN uses the term mimic...but how does that term clearly apply? When he created the wave of water that washed Ivan and Maarten over, it was more volumne that his own body itself comprised, so he was mentally creating water just like Sylar mentally creates Ice, and Meridith mentally creates fire. The Both Hyrdo- and Aqua- are synonyms for water, and when you add the suffix kinesis, it simply means they are controlled by the hosts mind. He used his mind to call forth the water. However, their is no term 'waterkinesis'...but the other two prefixes are commonly understood terms for the same thing. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/30/2007 15:14 (EST)
              • I believe you misinterpreted the scene check it again carefully including the frames leading up to it. He's not calling forth water. He charges the men and breaks through them as a liquid. He's not affecting any external water supply or projecting it from himself. He's only mimicking/transforming himself into water. (Admin 15:18, 30 October 2007 (EDT))
              • Hiro, to mimic water means for one to make oneself behave like water, which is what this character is doing. He might be creating water in the process, that's unclear. But he isn't manipulating water (other than the water that comprises him), as hydro-kinesis or aqua-kinesis would imply. He's just turning into water, or at least water-like liquid, i.e. mimicking it.--E rowe 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I like water mimicry. I slightly prefer self-liquefaction. But I think we should not use the word "density" for reasons already mentioned. As far as favoring that name because of its coming from a canonical source, I would just write that line off to being Noah's personal musing, not a deliberate naming of the power or defining what it entails. That line is just not an accurate description. Of all the physical properties of water, its density is not one that is particularly germane to this power. If we obligate ourselves on this wiki to say this power involves mimicking the density of water, then we're just repeating that inaccuracy. Plus, we do have another line from Noah that is just as authoritative and more accurate, when he says he turns his body wholly into water.--E rowe 15:47, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Yeah, I think we can omit "density" and still be following the canonical reference and I think it comes out nicely if we do omit it. (Admin 16:06, 30 October 2007 (EDT))

Why water? Isn't that speculative as well? Noah and Ivan both say Liquid. Why not "Liquid Mimicry?" or "auto-viscosity control" (that is also very speculative I know, I just like it.)Random guy 15:14, 3 November 2007 (EDT) hi self liquification sounds more appropriate , because he can control his on form a man named washout can do a similair thing he can do so why not name his ability self liquification --Zoga78 19:36, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

  • It's not speculative. Noah says the man can mimic the density of water in the novel.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:43, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Now that Adam Armus and Kay Foster said Elisa can change her molecular structure to become liquid, probably not water, should we have a name that doesn't say "water". --Powermimic 02:45, 8 January 2009 (EST)
    • Not necessary. Water mimicry doesn't mean the person becomes water, but mimics water's density. It also appears that the power mimics water's appearance too. I don't see the new information from Ryan's interview as conflicting with the current name.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:54, 8 January 2009 (EST)
      • I agree with you, Miami. Mimicking water doesn't necessarily mean becoming water. In fact, I never thought it really did mean that. Just as Future Sylar mimicked President Petrelli--he wasn't actually Nathan, he just mimicked him. Or Minerva McGonagall mimicking a cat doesn't mean she actually becomes a cat (her mind still acts as a wizard). Or me mimicking a gorilla doesn't mean I really become a gorilla. :) Water mimicry means the person takes on the properties of water, not that they actually turn into dihydrogen monoxide. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:00, 8 January 2009 (EST)

JUST A SUGGESTION

Maybe you could try "Aqueous Form". I mean the guy assumes a form similar to water, but he doesn't actually specify if he really becomes water. Since the form is similar to water (as implied by the color of the water) why not say he assumes an aqueous (similar to but not necesarily actually water) form. Not to mention, he also seems to have hydrokinesis, which does not qualify as a part of his form. Thus the abilities should be distinguished from one another and this ability should be called Aqueous Form. Shadowulf 10:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

  • I think you're off base; mimicking water doesn't mean becoming water. Name is fine as-is, imho.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:39, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
  • The current name follows our naming convention. "Aqueous Form" does not. (Admin 23:26, 12 August 2008 (EDT))

Why doesn't it follow your convention? And even if the name is not conventional (to YOU) he still has hydrokinesis, although not complete hydrokinesis, and if you'll keep water mimicry, you should still add hydrokinesis as a canonical ability. Shadowulf 4:42, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

  • The canonicity in question is not what ability he has, but what the name of the ability is. Nowhere in the Heroesverse has "hydrokinesis" or "aqueous form" or any variation of those terms ever been used. In Team Building Exercise, Noah says the liquid man can "mimic the density of water". This phrases is turned into the term "water mimicry". The conventions for naming abilities are pretty clearly laid out at this link. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:06, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

User:Shadowulf1N/A 15:55, 14 August 2008 (EDT) Okey dokey. Everybody likes the name. It fits the requirements. Ok. maybe those "graphic novels" should be more specific as to the nature of the abilities they feature. sheesh.

  • It's really not about liking the name, it's about fitting the requirements and following the naming conventions. Personally, the name is kind of boring and it's really not my favorite. Yeah, it'd be nice (for the wiki's purposes) if every ability were clearly named, but that's not the way the novels work, and it really takes away from the art of the entertainment. Oh well, we do the best with what we've got! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:58, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Elisa

Does Elisa (I think that's how her name is spelled...) from the Destiny webisodes have this ability? It seems similar, but perhaps not exactly the same as she is able to completely turn into water, something I don't think the Liquid Man did. Seb.gwirionyn 23:06, 10 November 2008 (EST)

  • We don't know. It hasn't aired.--Riddler 23:07, 10 November 2008 (EST)
    • Go to the NBC website and enjoy the first episode, my friend. Then come back and tell me what you think. Seb.gwirionyn 23:12, 10 November 2008 (EST)
      • Oh my, didn't know it was up. Sorry about that. Well, yeah, I'd consider it Water mimicry, since she is mimicking water. ;] --Riddler 23:16, 10 November 2008 (EST)
        • Cool. I'll add her in. Seb.gwirionyn 23:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)
          • She seems to have developed the ability much more than liquid man. Intuitive Empath 08:56, 11 November 2008 (EST)
            • Yeah is it just me or does she have hydroportation too? She kept pace with a running Santiago for who knows how many blocks...--Yamawhata? 16:28, 25 November 2008 (EST)
  • Have we seen her control water, or just mimic it? The description of the ability currently implies that anyone with it could do both... --Stevehim 17:44, 6 December 2008 (EST)
    • She controlled it to flow herself under a door and even left a piece of her watery self on Santiago's lips.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:30, 6 December 2008 (EST)
      • But that's still her, it's not like she joined herself with a body of water and controlled it, she was only shown to "control" the water she becomes, not external water. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:37, 6 December 2008 (EST)
        • She was also amongst the water that flowed out of the showerhead; wasn't that the point of focusing on the water that flowed out for so long?--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:48, 6 December 2008 (EST)
          • Also, the "liquid man" was able to control water and use it to splash the agents assigned to him.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:04, 6 December 2008 (EST)

preview

did anyone else see this ability in the preview for the next episode?

  • Don't forget to sign your messages with ~~~~. And, what episode are you talking about? Mateussf 19:44, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

Regeneration Factor

I've noticed that when the ability users are in their water forms, they can leave water behind them. However, when they change back into their flesh state, they show no signs of injury, indicating a slight regenerative factor. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the ability's description? Or at least have a link at the bottom leading to Claire's ability? --Spexile 20:06, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Sounds a bit speculative to me. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:17, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I think it's a valid theory. Maybe they can regenerate using water they have drank. Also, when Elisa is hit by a car, she immediately turns into water. This may be a conscious action, a reflex or even a passive demonstration of the ability. Mateussf 21:20, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
      • I agree, it's a very valid theory. But for that exact reason--it's a theory--it shouldn't be added to this page. However, feel free to create Theory:Water mimicry, if you want. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:33, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
        • If it turns out to be Tracy (which it is!!!) then this is going to either being 100% true or leave one hell of a loop hole in the plotline.--Fr0z3nB0nes 15:24, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
          • I think its still a very strong possibility that it was barbara. i think that its pushing it abit that being able to freeze things allows you to turn yourself into water. we will have wait and see. --Lolwut

Does this mean that people with this ability can regenerate against poison emission. 50000JH

Tracy or Barbara?

We're discussing whether or not the character shown in An Invisible Thread is Tracy or Barbara at Talk:Tracy Strauss... please don't add information related information to the water mimicry page just yet.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:56, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Augh, crap. After making edits to Tracy Strauss, Freezing, and Water mimicry, I only just see this now. In defense of it being Tracy, she has a damn good reason to be going after the Building 26 folks after they tortured her for so long. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 01:45, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Dammit, but they said there will be no Barbara in season four. But Tracy with this ability makes little sense... -- Altes 02:27, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • The title "Volume 5: Redemption" came up before the little blurb at the end, as well as the "End of Volume 4" sign. So you could say that part of the episode is part of Vol5. Advic 02:32, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Volume 5 is season four. Volumes Three and Four are the third season. -- Altes 06:35, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Shoot, I just edited this page too, I'll remove it, sorry. I'm still sure its Tracy, she has that weird smile that neither Niki nor Jessica made.--Fr0z3nB0nes 11:01, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
            • Bryan Fuller confirmed this was Tracy Strauss. There are no plans on bringing Barbara yet to the show. Jfjhong 00:32, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
              • If you read down, we already noted that and decided to go with Tracy; but thanks for joining the conversation. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:44, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
                • Is it safe to add her to the list of people with water mimicry then? Thanks Jfjhong 00:50, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
                  • No. She did something that looked a lot like water mimicry, but I don't think we can say that she now has two powers. It's completely reasonable to say that her freezing ability has evolved to allow her to take on the properties of water. In the end, we just don't know what's going on, so we avoid speculation. In other words, she should definitely not be added to the water mimicry page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:03, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
                    • What if she Water Mimicry is wider than just water, that she has always had water mimicry and because of that she was able to freeze stuff and that its only now that she has learned to tap into its full potential? --DontEatRawHagis 19:23, 11 May 2009 (EDT)

Moved to Episode Powers

I moved this to episode powers as of the Volume 5 part of An Invisible Thread. Also, I've listed Tracy as having the ability now its case closed on her talk page.--Fr0z3nB0nes 14:51, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Image

Anyone thinks that Tracy's image should be used as the main image? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:06, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

  • I completely agree with that. The only question being which one? The one of the water moving across the floor and pooling; the one of it starting to form up into her feet/calves of water; or the one of her back morphing from water back to flesh? Personally, I like the one of it starting to form up into her feet/calves of water, but I don't have a huge preference.--ElleFanBoy
    • I would reccomend it not being used. We are not sure at present that Tracy's is a completely new ability, because she may still have access to her freezing ability. --Action Figure 05:12, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Fair enough. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:26, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
        • So, are we not going to put the pics of her using the power, anywhere? Not in Water mimicry (because we don't know if it's a new power) or in Freezing (because we don't know if it's an evolution of her original power)? Wow. If we can come to somewhat a consensus over Matt's Precognition/Telepathy deal, you'd think we can come up with one for Tracy (at least temporarily, until Volume Five airs).--ElleFanBoy
          • Well, I don't know about you, but ask anyone who knows me here, I've always supported not listing precognition as a split ability in Matt's page, and chalk it to ability development. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:21, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Agreed. But With Tracy, I believe it is a different ability from Water Mimicry and Freezing altogether, and less of an evolution of power, and more that she could always do this and didn't know it. It also is not a coincidence that she warms up to Micah, and the "ICe Queen" thing changes... --Action Figure 14:38, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
            • Someones reset her power to freezing, would b nice to get a heads up at least :\ EDIT: Oh dam, why didn't you list it on disscusion and leave it in history :(--Fr0z3nB0nes 13:17, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

Tracy

Has it been confirmed that Tracy does indeed have this power? Or is it some form of freezing?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 00:42, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

We don't know enough yet. I think it could be perhaps more of a water manipulation. Not to mention if she still has freezing as well...--Master Dave 05:57, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Controling water and the cells that are like 75% water or something and the states of water would be in the bounds of water manipulation or water mimicry - Discipol

  • Why don't we just say she has both? Rather than giving her a new category of water manipulation and having to explain that she has complete control over water save it's gas state, why don't we just list as having two powers with completely separate characteristics? Cyrokinesis AND water mimicry.--Kooliki 22:10, 3 October 2009 (EDT)
  • We don't know that she has both. In fact, there's really very little to say that she has suddenly acquired a new ability, not to mention that it would probably be the first time in Heroes that somebody has just randomly acquired a second ability without any explanation. It's very much more likely that her current ability is evolving, much like Matt's did. Matt appears to have multiple abilities, but he only has one. Ditto Tracy. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:59, 3 October 2009 (EDT)

Clothes

She could make clothes out of water like the chick from the fan-made videos, or like Hydro from Spiderman. It is plausible enough - Discipol

  • Maybe she just likes playing a bad girl? ;) -- Altes 06:21, 9 June 2009 (EDT)